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How can codependency contribute to financial anxiety?
What can we do if we have poor boundaries around lending, spending, and giving money to others, especially family?
Why our need-to-please can lead us to poor financial decisions and what we can do to stop being such dummies with money–listen now!
In this podcast episode, Marissa speaks with Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, LMSW about codependency, money shame, and financial anxiety. Lindsay discusses ways how our codependency can lead to a) poor boundaries around money, b) difficulty bringing up money with others due to a fear of disapproval, and c) financial anxiety when it comes to spending on ourselves (since we are not allowed to!). Lindsay shares her experiences working with clients on their financial issues and common themes she sees with those struggling to set limits, especially with codependent family relations.
Thanks for listening!
About this episode’s guest:
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin is a biracial financial therapist, speaker, and Plutus-nominated author. In her therapy practice, she uses shame-free financial therapy to help people get their minds and money in balance. Additionally, she’s expanded her services to help therapists with their money mindset, niching, and authentic marketing. She lives with her partner and their dog in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Free quiz on Financial Archetypes: http://www.mindmoneybalance.com/podcast
More deets on this episode:
Question one: What is financial therapy? According to Lindsay, it’s aim is to help clients “cultivate a healthy relationship with money.” Financial therapy is a more nuanced way to look at money that elicits the feelings and emotions that come up around money.
Question two: How did Lindsay come to be a financial therapist? “I had an interest in money because in my first job post-grad school was paid less than I made waitressing.” Say what? Lindsay discusses her endeavors to find out about money, personal finance “but a lot of it was shame-based.” She wanted to address money without shaming and blaming people which led her to her practice focusing on financial therapy.
Question three: How has Lindsay seen codependency interwoven with money issues? “It’s all over the place!” Lindsay most sees it in adult-child relationships as well as between adult children: siblings. For example, a parent who pays their child’s rent or a sibling who lends money to their financially irresponsible sibling.
Question four: Scenario–if I’m codependent with my mom, and she supplements my rent, why would I want her to stop doing that? “It’s like a failure-to-launch issue. It’s great your parents supplement your rent, but will that last forever?” Lindsay poses questions about how sustainable that is to be codependent on others financially…which it’s not! “That money comes with strings attached.” Oh, truth!
Question five: How do we name “codependent” financial behavior for what it is? “I start where my client’s at.” Lindsay asks them how they feel about the codependent behaviors: “Is this a problem for you?” If it isn’t, she doesn’t address it. If they identify it as a problem, then she does help them name the “codependent” behaviors around money for what it is (in place of “generosity”).
Question six: How do we start to create boundaries surrounding our codependent behaviors? “It depends on the culture and context.” Lindsay describes all the timelines, cultural norms, and expectations we have that contribute to what financial independence looks like for every individual. “You really can say no to taking money from your parents.”
Question seven: When her clients start to build a boundary, what is it like for Lindsay to witness their empowerment? “We do feel infantilized when we are supported financially and I hear a lot of language like ‘I finally feel like an adult,’ or ‘We finally feel like grown-ups!’” Holding the boundary is terrifying but, over time, it becomes more and more powerful. There is backlash but, most of the time, Lindsay’s clients are thrilled to create and maintain their boundaries around money.
Question eight: How do we navigate codependency and money in adult-sibling relationships? “It’s often a trauma response from when the siblings depended on themselves from childhood…it can be terrifying to individuate from an adult sibling.” Lindsay normalizes their dependency and also the difficulty in setting boundaries as an adult. Lindsay helps them create a “tiered approach” where they start with lending $300 then go down to $200 then to $100 and so on.
Question nine: What are the costs to remaining financially codependent with family? “The person who gets cut-off blames someone else and it gets misplaced. That can create a ton of tension.” Lindsay aids her clients in making the focus on YOU. “I love you, I’ll be there for you, and it’s important for me not to fund you financially so you can be an adult too.” Lindsay talks more about how resentment builds since “we hope this is the last time we give” to another…but it’s never the last time.
Question ten: What about gift giving and spending to please others? “That comes up when gifts typically were in place of emotional support in childhood.” Lindsay emphasizes how, again, this pattern leads to “strings attached.”
Question eleven: How do codependency and financial anxiety connect? “They can exist indepdent of one another but also overlap. Financial anxiety means experiencing symptoms of anxiety related to money.” Lindsay discusses common triggers and how we can assess which is which. Marissa emphasizes how “if we have others in mind, then it’s likely codependent.”
Question twelve: How has Lindsay witnessed codependency in therapists and their finances? “Every single one of my therapist-clients, when we talk about raising fees, they worry their clients will be mad at them.” Lindsay helps them look at the logic and emotion to empower them to make positive changes with their finances!
Link to Linday’s quiz on Financial Archetypes: http://www.mindmoneybalance.com/podcast